This week, we’re talking entrepreneurship and tech innovation with List Perfectly. Doug chats with Clara and Amanda about entrepreneurship. Clara, Amanda, and Doug chat with Theresa Cox about her List Perfectly journey and her input into the development of List Perfectly. Clara and Doug chat with Patrick Allman, List Perfectly Director of Innovation, about the List Perfectly technological journey up to today.
The Seller Community Podcast from List Perfectly is the ecommerce resource for the seller community across all platforms and a hub for information on growing your business. Find out more at thesellercommunitypodcast.com, leave a message or ask a question at anchor.fm/sellercommunitypodcast, or email us at podcast@listperfectly.com.
List Perfectly is the ecommerce resource for selling across multiple e-commerce platforms including eBay, Poshmark, Etsy, Mercari, Kidizen, Grailed, Depop, Tradesy, Facebook Marketplace, Instagram, and Shopify.
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Transcript
Doug:
Welcome to The Seller Community Podcast from List Perfectly. This is season two, episode 20 we’re talking List Perfectly entrepreneurship and tech innovation. So we’re gonna have three segments. In segment one, I interview Clara and Amanda, and we’re gonna talk about entrepreneurship. In segment two Clara, Amanda, and I talk with Theresa Cox. We’re gonna talk about her List Perfectly journey. Not many people know this, but she was List Perfectly user number one. So she’s been there all along the way. And then in segment three, Clara and I talk with Patrick Allman, List Perfectly’s Director of innovation. And he’s gonna talk to us about List Perfectly tech from the beginning up until now. These are portions of larger episodes that will come down the line. So we’ll have a full episode with Clara and Amanda talking about entrepreneurship. We have a full episode with Theresa Cox talking about her List Perfectly journey and how she helped us develop that. And then we’ll have a full episode with Patrick Allman talking List Perfectly tech. So let’s start with my entrepreneurship talk with Clara and Amanda.
List Perfectly Entrepreneurship Clara Albornoz and Amanda Morse
Doug:
So I have Clara and Amanda, back today, Amanda we’ll start with you and then we’ll go to Clara. So what does entrepreneurship mean to each of you?
Amanda:
The first thing, if you ask me, what’s the first thing that comes to your mind, when you think entrepreneurship, freedom, freedom to design the business, the way that you see fit. I worked in the corporate world and realized I wasn’t a good fit. I really like coming up with new ideas, new plans, trying new things, and working according to my own schedule, I’m not doing and executing something because someone told me to, I’m doing it because I have a passion for it. And I love it
Clara:
Because of my background, it felt like I was breaking chains. Okay. And that I was allowing myself to choose my own path, going into the unknown, allowing myself to make my own mistakes, own my successes and choose the path in which that success could benefit me most financially, spiritually, and emotionally.
Amanda:
There’s so much more information out there about how to set up your own business, where to start, and what to do. Communities are being formed and have been formed, uh, around your passions, your interest levels. There are just a lot of avenues for you to explore and like Clara always. And I say, you know, the world, the internet, the world is big enough for everybody’s ideas.
Clara:
I’ve been in the U.S. only 20 years. I’m an immigrant. I came here by myself and I observed very carefully, okay the changes in America, in the society, in the values in, in, I have to say, I believe okay that the pandemic mixed okay with, let’s say a corporate culture that became overly greedy, uh, and then ecommerce exploding at the same time, people creating this massive influx of demand and the abundance people realizing, hey, commerce is exploding and I could be selling corks or even broken plates. They’re selling for almost side projects. So that I think is a combination of factors that make unique changes that I don’t think the American society is gonna go back to that.
Doug:
It’s easy to go to fear. Change is scary. And we’ve talked about this amongst the three of us. It’s like, don’t go to fear.
Clara:
That anxiety, all right. Can become a fear that is gonna give you a reaction of fight or flight. Fear is just because you didn’t try it. And you heard that someone else failed, or you heard that someone else succeeded, but you don’t have the same opportunities. Right? And then you start analyzing, well, they did this and I don’t have that. First of all, breathe, and believe in yourself. Fear has the power of giving you that narrow vision. As long as you can concentrate on breathing and knowing that you’re not alone, lean with a partner, you don’t have a business partner as I did with Amanda. She helped me a lot. Get yourself in the community, let the community help you. You’re not alone.
Amanda:
We’ve all heard the term flight or fight. Right. Well, I think there’s a missing piece of that. There’s fight, freeze, or flight. And I think we all have, have a little bit of that to a certain extent. I know that I do, you know, sometimes if I’m scared, I really have to like, just talk to myself and calm myself down. Try to find what’s gonna motivate you to turn into that fighter.
Doug:
Clara. You often say don’t chase the money. So tell us about that. What does that mean for you?
Clara:
Well, I chased the money. I came to this country with two suitcases. Actually. I was on my way to Canada. Okay. So I had the bright idea of stopping in L.A. for like two months. Yeah. Right. And that didn’t work out like that. Okay. I stayed, you know, and uh, the rest is history. You know, a green card worked out very fast for me. My first job was as a cashier at Target. Okay. After that, I was very lucky because I was managing registers. They trusted me with money. So I moved very fast, you know, to be trusted with money, which allowed me to go into banking and finances. When I was there, I lost track of…searching for stability. And I got gritty and I started to make, and I focused. I always wanted to make more and more, you know, it’s very competitive. Okay.
Clara:
You start chasing the money and then little, you start seeing your friends less, you start taking care of yourself less. You start working out less. Okay. You start sleeping less. You start calling your family less. And your bank account keeps growing and growing and you feel better. Good, good about yourself until one day you realize you’re surrounded by people that are just, you are just a number. I was still chasing the money Doug, and I was empty. If you’re doing that, Amanda broke me free. Amanda told me that ecommerce is big enough for all of us. And that was freedom for me, that changed my life. That was something that literally was Amanda. The one that broke me free from chasing the money.
Amanda:
I remember the stress of working in the corporate world and is taking a toll on my health. Honestly, I felt sicker. I felt less rested. All those things that Clara mentioned when I started out, obviously I did not make nearly the money that I did in the corporate world. Right. We all, we all have to ramp up and you gotta start somewhere. And I did not, uh, do what a lot of people do, which is ramping up your, your online business and then wean out your corporate job. I just went cold turkey, right? So there was a massive reduction in income immediately. And I had to hustle to figure out how to pay the bills. But you know, it all worked out in the end. Even during those times of entrepreneurial stress. When I did not know how I was going to pay my bills, I still felt so much less stressed out. It just meant more to me. And, and I can’t say enough about the lifestyle change that if you pick the right thing for you and that’s gonna mean something different for everyone, you will see a difference in your life, in your stress level, in your enjoyment, in your happiness, in your gratitude.
Doug:
Both of you, why do you each think that reselling is such a great option for entrepreneurs?
Amanda:
I love it. It’s my favorite path to entrepreneurship because it is accessible to anyone. Anyone has something in their else that they can let go of and start their entrepreneurial journey there. Most people have all the tools at their disposal. You don’t even need to start off with a computer. If you have a phone, you can get started listing online. You probably need, most marketplaces now require a credit card and banking information, to deposit money into your account whether it’s PayPal, Venmo, or whatever it’s gonna be. But most people can access these tools. You don’t have to buy a franchise and come up with the capital. You don’t have to sign long-term leases. You don’t, there’s a lot of things. There’s, there’s the lowest barrier of entry in reselling. It’s an incredible path to entrepreneurship.
Doug:
You were very successful selling online. You’ve started multiple companies that led up to List Perfectly. You’ve been very successful in business, but interestingly, you’ve never had investors. So why was that?
Amanda:
This is an interesting topic because I’ve gotta give all the credit to Clara on this. She opened my eyes to believing in yourself and being able to lift companies with your own effort. I think what really changed for me was breaking out of the mindset that I had to hire people to help me figure out how to get from point A to point B. And so I can’t do that without investment. Clara believed in me and I just needed to believe in myself that, okay, yeah, I can learn to code. I can figure this out. I can find the solution. And once I understood that, and I understood that she supported me and would pay the bills while I learned to teach myself how to code, you know, it was the best decision that we ever made because we talked about freedom with entrepreneurship. As soon as you get an investor, you lose your freedom and it’s no longer your company. You have to be very lucky to find that angel investor that truly wants to stay out of your business and just give you money to make multiples for them. They’re not easy to find.
Clara:
The second you grab the check, you know, the contract is fulfilled and you cashed it. So I’ve seen people change dramatically. I wanted us to make our own mistakes without being judged because it’s already very hard what we’re doing. Um, because we’re doing it in a very unorthodox way. We’re breaking all the rules. You can imagine. There is no advertising. I have no digital marketing. Okay. There is no sales team. I knew that if we get investors, we would have a voice, you know, and naturally, if you’re gonna take their money, you gotta listen to them, right, and it’s part of the contract. It’s part of the deal. Sometimes not if you’re lucky. Right. But okay, it is in our experience. Okay. You give a percentage of the company. Okay. You’re keeping control of the company and that’s what I wanted to avoid and wait for the right time until we get the right investors.
Clara:
We’re not, we’re doing great. We’re not in a hurry. We’re you know, Amanda is doing the tech team is doing great. My side is doing great. Could we grow faster? Yes, no doubt. But why rush it when we’re doing everything as we did with Amanda to be natural and not force it and, and be very picky about this because you, it was very hard to take off this company with literally our own money. It was me. I got up to $200,000 of credit card debt. You gotta trust in who you’re investing. And then that person has to trust in themselves that they can deliver and make mistakes. And you’ll be there to have their back.
Doug:
You frankly have faced some other challenges as women in tech. How has that been? And how have you dealt with that?
Clara:
It’s been tough. It was one year that Amanda was testing solutions, other solutions that just didn’t work or they wouldn’t deliver. And then it was just one person after the other telling her, no, no, no. You will never make it at List Perfectly. It’s not possible. The rest you can tell, Amanda.
Amanda:
Yeah. You know, you could look at it both ways, right? You could look at the negative side of it, which is that other people may not have believed in Clara and me. And that’s, that was clear, you know, from just about everybody that we dealt with, for whatever reason, they saw Clara and me, and they just didn’t believe that we could make it. Then you can see it from the other side that nobody saw us coming. <laugh> and I’m pretty proud of that. <laugh>
Doug:
Yeah. That’s the side I like.
Amanda:
So I think that you know, in some ways, it’s an asset, you know, when people don’t believe in you, use that as fuel, use it as fire, you know, prove everybody wrong. For me, what really gives me passion is being different and doing things differently. That gets me excited. I like being unique. I like being different. I don’t wanna follow the crowd.
Doug:
There was a time when money was tight. You went to eBay Open 2019, and it was kind of like, you know, we’re gonna go all in. You didn’t have a booth. You didn’t have a table. You weren’t handing out stuff.
Clara:
On, literally on your last fumes. Okay. I had $1,500 left in the bank. Okay. We only had the money for one ticket, and Amanda got in. Okay. I stayed out and, uh, <laugh> I was in so much back pain. I cannot even explain to you the shoulder pain that I have. So I put my The Clothing Vault t-shirt that was on the back, The Clothing Vault is my eBay store. And on the front, it said List Perfectly. And I start handing those flyers. It was out of necessity. It was what we had the resource that we had left. And it was the support of Theresa Cox that really motivated us to go to eBay Open and then, you know, meeting the community and, uh, presenting our product. And then the rest was history. You know, we went viral and it was incredible.
Amanda:
It’s one thing to say that you have $1,500 in the bank and you know, for a lot of people, you can actually make that last, quite a long time. We were literally days away from defaulting on our debt. I mean, that’s how close it was. When we say that we were on the precipice, we were days away from going into collections receivers. Like you name it, I just didn’t know what was gonna happen. It was very scary. But, uh, and that’s when that fear, you know, we talked early on about that fear, but that drove us, right? Yeah. We harnessed that fear, and we did not allow it to dictate our decisions. We, we took risks and, and I think that that’s, that’s part of life, right? You, you have to look at everything and say, okay, this is an opportunity to connect with other sellers. This is our market. These are the people that we need to speak to, and this could make the difference. Let’s go for it and let’s try it and let’s see what happens. Just go big or go home.
Doug:
Okay. So let’s say I’m an entrepreneur and I want to get started selling online. How is List Perfectly gonna help me grow my online selling business?
Amanda:
You know, we love to say List Perfectly is for everybody, every single business level. And we always say in an ideal world, a new seller would get started right away with a List Perfectly platform, because you’re developing good habits, right? You start learning about, um, how to create a template to help you list faster. You can list, right from your phone on our platform. You have your listing stored, in the catalog automatically by default, because you started listing there first, and then you crosspost them to the marketplaces that you wanna go to. You start learning best practices about how to manage your, um, item IDs because that’s, that’s another important thing. As soon as you use List Perfectly as your main management platform for your listings, doing things than on the market directly on the marketplace will affect your catalog and you learn not to do that, you know? Right. So we love when someone new comes along, they start learning about how templates can help them. They start learning about best practices. They’re actually gonna have a leg in their reselling business. And it’s not that big of an investment. A new person could get started with a simple plan. It’s easy. You don’t have a lot of fields to think about. It’s just, that it’s cutting everything down to the very basics and you don’t need any computer knowledge to make the simple plan work for you.
Clara:
Start with, like Amanda said, with things around your house. So you can make those, you know, inevitable mistakes that we have to do in order to embrace the entrepreneurial journey. Because if you think you come to this business or to this industry to not make mistakes, then no, okay, you gotta go to the security or the blanket security of a corporation, you know, this is making mistakes and learning from them.
Doug:
So what advice do you have specifically for female entrepreneurs that wanna get into tech?
Clara:
Behave like a man. Think like a man. Act like a man. Own it, brag it. Don’t be eating humble pie. This is a very competitive arena. You have to be strong. You have to be determined and forget about genders. It’s not about genders. Let it go. It’s not about titles. It’s not about genders. It’s about owning what you say, executing, delivering, and just communicating because it’s a man’s world. Literally. Technology’s a man’s world. Okay. It’s the majority men. I’ve been in all banking, lawyers, I’ve been in men-dominated industries. So that’s what I can say forget about genders and just execute. You know, that’s what I noticed. That’s what I admire about men. You know, it’s like, they own it. They’re like “It’s mine.”
Amanda:
You touched on something that’s important. And I think that’s the believe in yourself part. And I think when I hear behave like a man, I don’t necessarily take that literally. Right. I see it more like believe in yourself, believe in your idea. The advice that I would give is to stay true to yourself. Stay true to who you are, believe in yourself. Because when everyone around you doesn’t believe in you, you need to believe in yourself to keep going. And eventually, you will find those people that believe in you. And eventually like for let’s just take tech, right? I had to go through four, like four sets of developers before I found the group that I have. Now, these people, believe in the project. They believe in me. They believe in Clara. They believe in the company. They believe in what we’re doing. I think when you believe in yourself, it will all work out.
Doug:
So what, how’s the outlook for eCommerce looking? What do you think it is?
Amanda:
The sky’s the limit. It’s just gonna keep growing and growing and growing. People got used to being in their house. And it’s not going anywhere, you know? I don’t, I don’t see, okay. The pandemic is gone. Not everyone’s gonna go flocking to the malls and, you know, shopping all day. Some people will, but no, we’re, I think we’re all used to just getting that package, sitting there on the doorstep, waiting for us to open it up and be like, like, like it’s a gift that you get every day that you order something online.
Clara:
I think it’s gonna be the sector of the industry that the government should put a, you know, a good eye on it because it’s gonna change the economy of this country. I think this is what is gonna bring America to help the small business owner in reverse, okay that outsourcing from other countries and bring that spirit of entrepreneurship back to the average American.
Doug:
Anything to add that we didn’t cover? Any pearls of wisdom?
Clara:
Just do it. Okay. Start playing with it. Okay. Just freaking do it. I’m telling you. Don’t wait, just go and think of your store name, one step, one day, one week. Okay. Say it, go weekly. Okay. Week one store name. You have a whole week to think about the store name. Okay. Week two sourcing. What am I gonna sell? Okay. Let’s go home for week three. Okay. I’m gonna open a marketplace store. I’m gonna start with one. Okay. And I’m gonna test one. Week four, I’m gonna see if I have a sale, and how do I ship week five? I’m going to a community. So I have backup and I gotta understand my options. Grab a calendar, one of those paper calendars, and just, and don’t worry if you, okay, what if you had three weeks of sourcing, forgive yourself? What if you had a month that you couldn’t make up the mind of your business name? So what, okay. The idea is that you’re getting it done and you’re holding yourself accountable.
Amanda:
Definitely, community, you know, when, when you’re just getting started, turn to the community, they’ll help. And you know, I think that there’s a lot of helpful advice out there. And then there’s a lot of bad advice. So I say that lightly, just be careful with <laugh> some of the advice that you get, but in general, when you hear positivity in a community when you see people truly helping each other out, listen to that. If you see a community that’s just going negative or talking about things that could go wrong, stay away from that. There’s no need.
Doug:
Thank you, Clara and Amanda, for joining us today and talking about entrepreneurship.
Clara:
Oh, thank you, Doug. Thank you again for, uh, having us today here with you and helping us share our perspective and our story, right, man.
Amanda:
Absolutely. Thank you so much. And uh, we love the community. We love being accessible. We wouldn’t have any other way. Thank you. Thank you, Doug.
Theresa Cox and Her List Perfectly Journey
Clara:
How did you discover List Perfectly?
Theresa:
I run an eBay sellers meetup group here in the Phoenix area. I’m guessing that Amanda and Clara found me on a meetup group or something like that, and came to my meetup in February of 2019 and listened to me talk about whatever I was talking about that night. And then afterward, they stayed and told me about this program that they had done. And it was at that time, I think it was more about listing faster and making listing faster. And we anyways, and so I was like, I was very intrigued, like tell me more. And you know, that just kind of, it just kind of took off from there.
Amanda:
Yeah. I have to say Theresa meeting you at that event was really special. And I remember you had just gotten back from a trip that you’d taken to eBay. So you came back with all this eBay swag and we <laugh>, and we talked about it, you know, I even got an eBay shirt. I thought that was so cool, how much you shared with the community about eBay and I could tell, right away just how, what an important person you were in the community and how much you knew, how much your knowledge of selling, in general, was even, even beyond eBay. So, I mean, for me meeting you was just a, I was honored, let’s just say that. And, and then talking to you, I just wanna share with the audience, how, how warm and gracious and open you were.
Theresa:
I love doing what I got to do with List Perfectly, and I’ve done it with other companies and I do it with eBay to some extent. It’s like, I love giving my feedback and giving my opinions, and I tell people all the time I have opinions. And I will tell you that I like this better. And Amanda knows, I mean, I’ll say, okay, I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I don’t really like that change because of this <laugh> and Amanda will then say, well, you’re using it wrong. And I’m like, huh. And so she’ll set me straight. And then it’s like, okay, I get it now. But, um, I, you know, so I really liked being able to help develop something that would help me and, you know, and my way isn’t may not be the way of the majority of the community, but it is a way, and it’s not the only way.
Theresa:
And so when you guys are a startup company and you’re developing stuff, you’re very open to that. So for me, I was honored and I was lucky. I mean, I really feel like I won the jackpot. Like you came to my meet up and you talked to me and, and everything like that. Do you want me to help you test something out? The answer’s always going through your vision was way bigger than my vision. And I, you know, I believed in you and I knew it was something, but you guys have taken it far more than I could have ever imagined. So <laugh>, and that’s all I knew in your, you know, just your involvement with the community. List Perfectly today was not List Perfectly three years ago, with four platforms and templates. And yet here we are, same price and everything. So you, I mean, that just tells me, you guys had the bigger vision. You guys knew what you needed to charge, and you were just gonna do that. Not having, okay. We added more features. So now we’re gonna increase the price by $3, whatever.
Theresa:
A good reminder that thanks to the tests that we did with you, okay, extensively, that’s how we decided to remove it. Actually, its List Perfectly is cheaper than when we started. Because back in the day, we charged you for saving listings in the catalog. And I remember charging you for that. And <laugh>, I, I still am charging you for that. And then we are like, Amanda does her magic and nope, unlimited, that’s it go and list it, you know, save your 10,000 listings in LP, you’ll pay the same as the one that pays, saves a hundred listings.
Theresa:
Yeah. And so, you know, that’s a good point because I said it, the price didn’t change. The price never increased, but it definitely has decreased. And you’ve added more features and you’ve given us an all unlimited catalog, which is huge for me. Um, I have over 6,000 eBay listings, I have over 8,000, um, in my List Perfectly catalog, List Perfectly is going to be, I’ve gotta do one more inventory purge, and when I’m done with that List Perfectly will be 100% my inventory management tool.
Doug:
So what was the initial spark between you and Clara and Amanda, and then what was the initial spark that drew you to start using List Perfectly?
Theresa:
You know, so, so we were talking about it, creating listings and, and doing all this stuff. And, and I remember saying to Amanda, well, that’s great, but what about the 4,000 listings I already have listed on eBay? I don’t know what happened. I don’t know what changed with it, but it was like, this is great for all my new listings, but what about all the ones I already had and 4,000 listings were, you know, overwhelming because they were just all on eBay. So you said that when you launched this, it’s like you, you didn’t, you had like seven different ways too, I’m making seven up. I don’t know seven different ways to go. And then talking to me and asking me what I thought I needed helped you focus on what you were going to work on to develop to launch.
Amanda:
Absolutely. Absolutely. In talking to you, I realized, no, I, I really let’s lead off with the main product that we’ve been working on rather than starting something completely different. And, uh, you know that…
Clara:
Yeah. She centered us. She helped us focus.
Amanda:
Yes, absolutely.
Theresa:
I had no clue.
Amanda:
Yeah. <laugh>
Clara:
When you’re getting started, you see where, when you’re setting the foundation. Okay. Should we crank the simple plan, the business plan, the pro plan at that time, we didn’t even know what to call them, but I remember we understood your need and we’re like, no, this is us. And, and we found so many commonalities between you and us, even though our inventory couldn’t be more different <laugh>
Theresa:
Yeah. Inventory’s inventory. Doesn’t matter what it is. It has a number, it has a location and, you know, we all sell it. You know, I was just telling you what I thought, what I needed. And I never even thought that I mean, I knew you guys were taking notes or whatever, cuz you would ask me, follow up questions, whatever. But I never thought that at that time I was helping make these decisions. And then one of the things to is like you, you have to remember that List Perfectly was just getting started. And so they, they had been, this is their baby. They’d been working on this for years. And so there were a lot of things that they kept very close to the chest because they didn’t know who I was. They didn’t know, you know, anything about me. So it was, it was, you know, a little give and take in the beginning until we built up that trust and it was like, okay, I can trust them. They can trust me. I’m like, this is gonna be amazing. Let me spend more time. I knew it was gonna be a game-changer for the community. And so was it worth the time and the effort to have those calls and to test things out. And let me just tell you in the beginning it was, it was hard. I didn’t know how to download an extension. <laugh> What do you mean? There’s a conflict like, oh, I don’t wanna learn something. No, Amanda fixed it. <laugh> And then, you know, I mean, Amanda was just so patient with me, and Zoom calls before Zoom was a thing I’m like, ooh, these guys are techy. We’re doing a Zoom call.
Amanda:
Back in the day. I don’t know if you remember Clara and I had been using List Perfectly for years. Right? So we kind of forgot about the pain point of crosslisting. I remember watching these YouTube videos of people they were showing their method of crosslisting and it occurred to me. I was like, oh my God, that’s horrible. That’s so painful. So I remember when we first spoke it, it didn’t even occur to me to bring up the crossposting part because Clara and I have been doing it for so many years without, without any effort that, you know, then I think that’s when your light bulb went off. And uh, and I remember those Zoom calls since then when, when Theresa was all on board. Oh my God. Yes. This is a great idea. We had to then get on Zoom calls with the community, with people that you knew and shared this. Yeah. And it was, it was interesting because back then it was either, it was two reactions. Wow. I think I really need this or not, I’m fine doing it manually right. And, and it, it really, it was like a slow start if you think about it like people really needed to understand the time that they would save with using a software to do it instead of manual.
Theresa:
Yeah. And I will tell you, I mean, I, I talk about this all the time that before List Perfectly I sold on eBay and I sold on Amazon, two completely different businesses. Wow. And so, and I was like, people were like, well, I’m gonna crosspost and copy and paste and everything. I’m like, I did not have time for that. I had so much inventory to list that I didn’t care. And to me, eBay was the biggest platform, the best platform. So I was putting my eggs in on eBay and trying to just churn through my death pile. And I didn’t have time to do all that manual labor stuff, but with List Perfectly, and you know, I say this all the time, I started crossposting to Poshmark. And I think I deleted my Poshmark closet twice. <laugh> because then this is, I just said this because I’m, I was updating something in my List Perfectly catalog.
Theresa:
This is the pain point of being an early adopter because some of my listings, um, that are on Poshmark didn’t have the full title. And I didn’t take the time to edit everything out. Cause when you’re, crossposting 150 items at a time, I just didn’t care. It was just all about getting the stuff up on Poshmark or whatever. And so now I am fixing those because List Perfectly now has a thing that makes it easy for me to fix it. I am going through my older listings and just crossposting that over, which then makes it so that it’s a newer listing or it has some activity. I’m not really sure how the Poshmark algorithm works, but it creates the title that works and has now 80 characters. And it boosts that listing on Poshmark and, um, gives me some activity or whatever Poshmark needs.
Theresa:
I mean, I tried all the platforms. Kidizen is just one that I just don’t do because I don’t have enough kid stuff and, and mom stuff. And it’s, I don’t understand the platform. Before List Perfectly I wasn’t crossposting and I’ve tried ’em all. And you know, some of my favorites, I do Facebook Marketplace. I do Mercari for seasonal stuff. And you know, but like the rest of the world, I, I mean, I’m crossposting to Etsy, Poshmark, eBay. Those are my three regulars. I’m adding Mercari in more regularly, but yeah, yeah. Before List Perfectly two, and now I do ’em all in some form or fashion
Doug:
The summer of 2019. So eBay OPen 2019. So you’d met Amanda and Clara and you’d been working with them on this product. You said, you guys gotta go to this, so let’s start that story.
Theresa:
Yeah. So I was like, oh my gosh, eBay open. It’s amazing. If you’re a seller, you need to go, uh it’s in Vegas. And you know, I didn’t really know what they, what their plans were at the time for, um, the marketing. I know we had, we, I know that List Perfectly had a bunch of, I don’t know, a handful of users at this time because I remember, and we, can we talk about it now about, oh my gosh, how broke you guys were? But, um, we talk about, um, this was a marketing genius thing in my mind because I mean, I didn’t know it then, but I know it now that, um, we talked about going to eBay Open and, uh, you only bought one ticket and I know now it’s because that’s all you guys could afford. <laugh> and, um, but I was like, so, and I, because of Clara’s bad back, they were gonna fly. And I was like, whatever you need, I’m driving. Let’s meet up. Because for those of you, you guys don’t know Phoenix is the fifth-largest city in the country. And Clara and Amanda live on one Northern end. And I live on the Southern end of town and it literally is an hour and 10 minutes with no traffic for me to get from my house to their house. So we meet up somewhere and, um, I said, I’ll take whatever you guys need. Like, you don’t need to put it on the plane, whatever. And I put it met ’em up someplace and put it over to the car. Um, I think it was later, but you guys had run some kind of a special like you get a, you pay for three, you can get three months for this price, but you have to pay for it now. And I learned, well, this was for the existing users. I learned that that was the money that you guys needed to pay for the tickets…I was like, oh my gosh…we’ll give you this great discount for three months, but you gotta pay before we go to eBay Open. <laugh>
Amanda:
Yep, pay upfront. <laugh>
Theresa:
I know. And you guys, it’s, it’s so crazy because you guys are, um, you know, so successful now, but this, these are the stories. And I wrote something on my Facebook page because I wanted to memorialize my memory of it because these are the stories that, you know, you laugh at and you go, yeah, I was nervous about this charge and I was nervous about that charge. And, and, um, and you know, it’s funny because, uh, they only bought one ticket. And so Clara tells a story about how she was standing outside the doors of eBay, handing out these cards and telling people about List Perfectly. And, um, and somebody came up to her and it was probably the only person in the building that knew who I was. She mentioned my name and they were like, oh, okay, well then you’re fine. And I’m like, oh my, like that was total luck because it may have given me a lot of credibility in their eyes that, oh my gosh, Theresa knows everybody. Let me just tell you, it was just very lucky that the person that came up to them thought I was popular, cause I’m not that popular.
Theresa:
It was funny. It was, it’s just fun to reminisce now, out of those times. And, um, and it was, it was so that eBay Open, um, we talked about this all the time that Mo Monte was doing a, um, she got a suite and she was doing it for the BOSS Facebook Group. And so we, I scheduled at that time, I was working with DataMine as well. That DataMine is another software program that has done some stuff. And I did exactly the same thing. Well, what about, well, what about this? Can we do this? And so we set up to where DataMine was gonna do their demo on Tuesday. And List Perfectly was gonna do theirs Wednesday night. And I knew that I couldn’t go to both of them because I already had prior commitments and I really wanted to be there. And I wanted to be there for both of them to see the demos and whatever, and, you know, see the community reaction. And to this day, I’m really that I wasn’t there because you guys obviously took off. And, but you know, it is what it is. You guys had a great turnout and I love it when people tell us, oh, I was at that meeting. Like, oh, you were there. <laugh>.
Clara:
I remember from that suite, I had such a panic attack. Okay. Literally, I had a panic attack because I was so, so uncomfortable making presentations. I tend to forget my English when it comes to, uh, big crowds of presenting in person, literally that’s my weakness. And I remember Amanda being in the front and being so full of…we always tag-teamed up with Amanda, but it was incredible that you caught us, you know, such an incredible community and caring and a loving group that literally, uh, supported us when we had literally just a small room. We didn’t have a suite. Okay. <laugh> We did not have a suite. Okay. Let me tell you.
Amanda:
Mo did, we did not.
Clara:
I just wanna clarify. OK. <laugh>
Theresa:
And I remember that you know, my goal was to, cause I really, by this time by July, like this was a great product and I was actually using it. I looked at my List Perfectly account. And I think that my account was created on March 21st, 2019. And so I had been using it for a couple of months really. And by this time I believed and absolutely believed in the product. And, um, I remember Steve Raiken, Raikenprofits was doing, he set up his whole thing. He was gathering content, which I thought was a genius thing and people were scheduled and would go to his room. And I did a couple of shows for him and I said, hey, you need to talk to these guys. <laugh>. And so he had, they had you on, and I think I introduced you to Casey. And I don’t know, I just, to people that I knew had a large audience that could appreciate this and see the value in it. And so I really think that that’s where my value came in at that eBay Open in 2019 was, um, I believed in the product, I saw what the value was, and then I made the connection to the people that I knew in the community. And it just, it just kind of had this ripple effect.
Clara:
That’s just a little ripple effect, you know, 1500 signups overnight that, by the way, was just me and Amanda <laugh>
Theresa:
I know crazy, crazy. So, so I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s fun for me to reminisce about that just because I think, oh my gosh, how far have we come? And, you know, just the difference, just the product itself, how much developed and, and the different features and…
Amanda:
Yeah, we were adding channels as quickly as we could back in that day. Like us, I think, I think there was a time when we were adding a new channel a month, you know, when we first launched, we only had four, it was Mercari, Poshmark, eBay, and Etsy.
Clara:
How has List Perfectly changed your business?
Theresa:
Well, you know, it’s like, it is a no-brainer like I was just listing on eBay and I had completely, so what was great about List Perfectly, I think, is the timing with the pandemic, which of course, none of us could have seen or predicted or, or planned for, but it was just a perfect time. And I think it was perfect for you guys too, because you know, like for two years we’re locked down at home and we’re doing this. And what happened for me was my Amazon business was completely retail arbitrage. And so I would go out one or two days a week and I would just source and shop and do all that stuff and then send it to Amazon. And that was very thriving, that was where the core of my money at the time was coming from. And so we get shut down and Amazon’s not taking anything but essentials cuz they have no workers to unpack the boxes.
Theresa:
And I was like, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do? But I had already built up, you know, this is probably part of the reason of me taking down my Poshmark closet twice is be because by the time the pandemic hit, um, I was home and I’m like, yeah, this isn’t working, but I had the time cuz I wasn’t going anywhere. So I might as well just make this, let me turn it down and start over and do it. Right. And so, yeah, so it was very easy. Um, just the timing with the pandemic and everything, very easy to like, well let me, let me crosspost 500 listings to Kidizen and see how that works. And then, you know, let me try this over here. Let me try. And one of the things that I really liked about List Perfectly, in the beginning, was that you didn’t dictate which listings I crossposted.
Theresa:
Like you didn’t, it wasn’t like my, my last 10, my newest 10 or my oldest 10, it was like, I went to my eBay store and I sorted things and I was like, I sorted my, I have a category for kids clothing and I just took all those and crossposted to the List Perfectly catalog. And then I crossposted it out to Kidizen and that made it so easy because if I had 6,000, 4,000 listings at the time and I’m having to go back 10 listings at a time to my newest listings to click, like that would just take forever. So, I don’t have time. That’s why I never copied and pasted. I still have all my pictures on my computer, but I didn’t wanna spend the time looking for pictures and crossposting, copy, paste. Like to me, that’s what you hire a VA for.
Theresa:
And at the time I just, I didn’t have any VA, so, um, yeah, so it was, it changed me. I don’t think I ran numbers for let’s see. Yeah. So in 2020 I removed from all my sales. I removed eBay and I removed Amazon on and I averaged an extra $2,200 a month by crossposting and this is, this is the same 4,000 or 5,000 items at this time I was selling on eBay by crossposting them and getting them on different, getting different eyes on them. I was selling things. Etsy turned out to be a good platform for me. And then in 2021, I ran my numbers and I was just under $3,000 a month in sales from those other platforms, if you remove eBay and Amazon. And so my goal is to get those up to 4,000 for 2022, which I think is gonna be a tall order because we’re in Q2 and I haven’t really changed anything yet. And I am going to be, you know, changing up, doing more sourcing, doing different kinds of sourcing. Um, I don’t, I have all my deathpile stuff listed. And so now I’m gonna focus more on more retail arbitrage and get my ASP higher and you know, just do a bunch of things. But that’s my goal is to be able to have an extra $48,000 of income on platforms that weren’t my two original and only because of List Perfectly.
Clara:
This was amazing. Thank you again for your time, Theresa.
List Perfectly Tech Innovation with Patrick Allman
Patrick:
It’s quite an honor to really, um, be part of, you know, so much success and be able to see, I’ve had the luxury of being part of every release, every update changes everything. So, um, you know, I’ve been very fortunate to, to have been able to be in that position and be, you know, one of the, one of the first hired and everything. So it’s been great.
Clara:
What is your background? What is your tech background, please?
Patrick:
Yeah, I mean, you know, to be honest, mainly a user of tech. Um, my background and my work history were not just straight from the tech world. Um, I had a few different roles, and then if we wanna, you know, go and get some crossover skill sets from those roles, I would say in, into the tech was definitely somebody that was constantly improving processes through tech programs that we were using in our day to day, um, outfit or working with customers. You know, I worked for a larger bank and, um, I was utilizing software to help people navigate, um, certain processes in their life. But my tech background really kind of exploded once I joined List Perfectly, it was just a by chance situation. And, um, I just happened to be somewhere at the right time at the right place. And, um, I met Amanda. It was a tech meetup for JavaScript developers. I just walk in and basically say, “Hey, I know nothing, but I wanna learn everything.”
Patrick:
And that was kind of my mindset. Once the conversation started flowing, right away, I really realized how little I knew. Amanda walks in the door. Um, this is early on in the List Perfectly lifecycle. Lst Perfectly had been released. Customers were using the product and everything, and she came in and we were able to connect and talk for a little bit. And, you know, I started that conversation off with, “I am not the developer for you right now. <laugh>, I don’t know anything,” but was, uh, I wanted to talk to her and everything. So I was born and raised in the e-commerce world of resale parents that had successful Etsy shops, successful eBay stores, garage sailing with my dad and haggling and listing things on eBay and everything. So, um, it was very helpful to immediately understand the product and understand who the user was.
Patrick:
So from there I started working with List Perfectly, and, you know, I, I hopped on board and kind of dove head first. You know, it was, it was really just a good fit. I know there’s a saying, you know, dive in when you can afford to drown. And that’s kind of how I felt at that time. It’s one of those things that honestly, it seemed too good to be true. And still to this day, I say that and it, and it stays on track and it stays that way. So it really has been just an ideal situation. It really couldn’t have worked any better, you know, fast forward years now, Director of Innovation and, and able to work with everybody on a team, the community stay in touch and be part of, you know, the journey of creating product that thousands and thousands of people are using every day for their business.
Clara:
Literally the week before meeting you, we are establishing the mission and vision of our company, right? Because we’re gonna hire people. You gotta ask us. I was at that time, Chief Marketing Officer, remember and Amanda was the CEO and we’re establishing values, mission, vision, da, da, right. And one of them was like, okay, we’re gonna do, we’re gonna start looking okay for women coders, we’re gonna start looking okay for, you know, we’re gonna do a company. It’s gonna be majority of women. Okay. And there we go. We met you and the rest was history. I’m like, I’ll never forget. We met you. And Amanda tells me “Clara you’re gonna like him.” And I remember talking with you. Okay. And, and just keep chatting, you know? And then the background that you have and your, the way your, you process things, your logic, your common sense, right?
Clara:
I remember being so impressed and being okay, that was it. I knew we were hiring you. And I knew that you would grow in the company. And, uh, the rest, as you said, the rest was history, was Amanda finding you and may forget the answer that Amanda gave you because I was like, are we gonna babysit him? And I was like, mm-hmm. And Amanda told me, no. I told him if you’re expecting me to teach you how to code, that was not gonna happen. You have to teach yourself. And then together, we’re gonna figure this out and I’ll never forget. And you came with that mentality and the fact that you took on that, it meant so much to us.
Doug:
Well, and you know, the connection’s important. And you had that rare mix of having a knowledge of e-commerce and selling.
Patrick:
That is definitely a pretty unique, uh, little notch in, in my belt and working really close with customers and things like that. There’s been multiple conversations I’ve had where I feel like I’m the closest full-time reseller that was never a full-time resell. It’s just ingrained in me that kind of hustle and that mentality. Um, and, and, you know, working with the marketplaces and things like that, to be able to apply that skillset into my career now, you know, it’s just really kind of amazing. It’s a full circle kind of thing.
Clara:
How does it feel for you to work every day in tech?
Patrick:
I really do love it. People rely on tech so much for everything. You know, when you get to know the customers and the users, and who’s using List Perfectly, it’s integrated so much with their business and, and their, and you know, their livelihood. It’s not just purely a piece of tech. I mean, this is stuff that is affecting people’s day to day life. And, you know, when you work close with users, you you’ll quickly find out that there’s times where people think, uh, you know, you maybe List Perfectly may be affecting something and, and we’re not, but that’s how reliant people become, uh, to List Perfectly and to using the service and to utilizing the community and things like that. So that’s one thing I love about it. Another thing I love about it is just the never, it, it just never stops changing.
Patrick:
You’d be that’s what, what has changed, you know, when you’re in it, every single day, you forget features that are released, that nobody can live without. Now, there was a day that it didn’t exist having that really unique insight, um, to see it evolve so much has been, um, just so much fun. Doesn’t feel like a job. It doesn’t feel like I’m, you know, working every day or, or the days that I’m logging and things like that. So it really just becomes part of your life. And this, this speaks more to List Perfectly as a company and the culture, but I’m talking that also in tech that, you know, when you’re when you’re doing it and you love it, it doesn’t feel like a job.
Doug:
So List Perfectly is a startup and you referenced a fast pace. So tell us what it’s like working for a startup in tech.
Patrick:
It’s a ride, it’s a ride. So, so like, you know, a little bit of my history. So I’ve, I’ve actually had the benefit of working in all different environments. I’ve worked for small companies, I’ve worked for large companies, not just large companies, I’m talking about highly regulated industries, large companies. So, you know, it’s, it’s tough for things to change there, that doesn’t happen overnight. I mean, there are about 500 people that need to make a decision for something to change. So that’s not how, how it works and things like that. Working in tech and in a startup environment, it is fast-paced, to say the least, you know, it is constantly evolving, which is, which is so great because that’s, what’s good for the user and for the community, it continuing to evolve because most people would be pretty hard-pressed now to think of software that you bought, you downloaded it. and then that was it. Most people don’t interact with that anymore. It used to be that way, there used to be the software you would buy out of the box, that’s what you would get. And that’s if it broke or something like that, you were just kind of done for. So, you know, when thinking about that and thinking about what tech is, what List Perfectly is and what also, what List Perfectly, how it works with all of the marketplaces, nothing is ever standing still. So yeah, you know, that is what, what makes it so fun and exciting is, you know, every day there’s something new. When the customer is at the center of every decision, you know, it’s a great environment to work in. And so whenever List Perfectly is innovating or evolving new features, working on things, I’ve got to see that all the decisions that are made are in the customer’s best interest.
Patrick:
And so in an industry where customers are always needing different things because we work with all different marketplaces, all different types of sellers, and people selling different products. So with all those moving parts, nothing is standing still and you know, more on the List Perfectly side, just List Perfectly as a company and, and everything. I would say the level of internal support is what makes working in this kind of environment so, uh, productive and easy, because, you know, you talk about, oh, it’s so fast-paced. There are so many changes and everything like that that could easily become overwhelming in the wrong environment. And to the point of like, well, how do I, I mean, how do we stay ahead? Or how do we, how do I keep up? Or how do I prioritize my day if everything’s always getting thrown out well from the beginning, the team environment, and the support? And I mentioned the work with us kind of attitude. That is the the biggest difference and why it never, never has become a situation where you’re going, wow, I’m feeling just absolutely buried or, or anything like that.
Clara:
As a Director of Innovations, I wanna share this with the audience. Okay. And being on a startup, how do you manage every day? Because literally, your job is to err or literally test things okay that 99% don’t work. And then the 1% that you succeed is what we celebrate. How do you manage that? To keep that enthusiasm, when you have to be in a fast-paced environment, you gotta fix things fast. And then at the same time, you’re, you’re literally, we’re making so many, we’re failing so much. Okay. Until we succeed, how do you process that Patrick?
Patrick:
For me, the biggest thing is staying connected with the users and the community. So you’re right. We fail a lot and that’s okay because what we’re trying to do is innovate. So when we’re trying to innovate and actually create and improve, we’re going to fail. And then the other part is to celebrate the wins. Like you’ve said, when you release something, or when you, with users that, you know, you’re talking about improving day-to-day life, this is software that people are using every day in their industry. So whenever you get to a point where yes, it’s what the community needs, it’s what our users need to improve processes, to sell more, to make more money, to do whatever they’re gonna do with it. You know, that’s whenever you get to, you know, celebrate and really take a step back and realize, okay, all those failures, the hard work, you know, while we’re trying to innovate was worth it.
Patrick:
I would say the last thing for me, personally, is just always keeping that customer at the center of everything and really actually wanting to, to do things, to help them. If you know, that is, what is at the center of all the decisions or all the developing or all the innovating, then failing is okay, that’s the end goal. And we’ll get there and we’ll solve it. But if you lose track of it and you’ve wasted all kinds of time and energy, it could be the greatest thing ever. And I’m guilty of it sometimes too. I’m like, I really think this button should be here. I really think that we should do this. And then I, you know, it’s an awakening and, you know, people will let you know, that was the worst idea ever that button should not
Clara:
<laugh> isn’t that true sometimes. Remember when you propose solutions that we think that nobody will like, and then they’re like a gamechanger. It goes the opposite way too.
Patrick:
Yeah, it is true. That is true. You’re like, yeah, I don’t know. Maybe it’ll be worth it. Maybe it won’t be like let’s, uh, you know, like let’s put something together, let’s get some feedback, let’s have a controlled environment. And it’s like, here’s the other part to List Perfectly. And, our users, List Perfectly is very flexible. And what I mean by that is List Perfectly as a software. And as the service that we provide is flexible to work in lots of people’s flow and into their business. So you’re listening to lots of different, uh, users. You’re getting lots of different use cases. This is not rigid out of the box. Here you go. Unpack it. And that’s what you get. It is a solution to solve lots of people’s problems or to fit into their business. So that’s the other dynamic of it is that you can be working on, uh, solutions for one group that you think is gonna solve, uh, lots of people’s issues or improve their processes.
Patrick:
And you right away, you have another group that’s using it just slightly, a little different, and we get to take advantage of that and build on it. So it’s not a, just a one size fits all kind of package. So I like that. I think that’s unique in the sense that we get to take advantage of all different kinds of use cases and build tools that the one user didn’t know they needed. And so sometimes though, there are features that it’s gonna be the greatest features. You didn’t know, you need working through support, working with customers, working still to this day, extremely close to support and things like that have allowed me to really feel that impact because I’m not gonna lie when people have issues. They’re at a complete and total standstill. Not, not just like, oh, I can’t do something. This one thing I’m talking about, you have interrupted their lives.
Patrick:
Basically, these people that are using List Perfectly in their reselling business and using it to the fullest, um, the way it was designed to be used and everything, that’s the kind of impact that you’re making. Our tech is working with 11 different companies. So it’s never going to stop evolving and changing. And then you add in, so you have that layer of working with different companies at all times, then you add in the layer of innovation and change just internally. So List Perfectly is innovating, so are the marketplaces, they’re innovating. So when you couple all those things, all that innovation together, there’s gonna be issues. We fully admit that our response to those and what we do when those issues arise is what separates List Perfectly from other tech companies. That mindset comes from the top and trickles down. So when I joined, I knew what List Perfectly was and who,, it may be.
Patrick:
One of the types of users was because it was my parents. Um, so I, you know, I knew who they were, who they were, and who that potential user was. Yeah. But what was more amazing is to learn how quickly I learned, and how big of an impact it is. And, you know, I talk about you interrupting their days and then they can’t sit down and they can’t have dinner, but it’s, that’s not to blow anything out of proportion. That’s just literally true. One of the, really eye-opening experiences for me was how big the community is. That is one thing I did not know at all. I did think that, hey, you’re just kind of at it alone. And you know, you do it and things like that, but, uh, that is very wrong. The community is huge and the community is what makes List Perfectly.
Patrick:
And once you know that, and then once you really start to look at how these people are using List Perfectly or using reselling. So, you know, that’s dynamic, the reselling world it’s so big. And it is, you have two different ends of the spectrum. It’s like, it’s like Six Flags. Okay. You have the wealthiest of wealthy people go to Six Flags to have fun. And so do people that don’t have money, cuz they like to have a good time with their families. They all go to Six Flags. I like to have a good time. In the reselling world, you have people that are massive companies in the reselling world. And you have somebody that is looking to resell stuff outta their closet to clean, clean the house. Okay. That those are your spectrums. So when you’re working with that vast of a, you know, a spectrum and two different ends of the world, you’re, you’re working with so many different walks of life basically.
Patrick:
And doing that and knowing that, and if you, and if you tunnel vision and you funnel in on these certain and different things, you’ll quickly know that your impact, what you, a feature that you may develop. Like if we took a developer, for example, a project that he may work on or she may work on, and what gets released is something that can be literally saving people clicks. And we talk about, and for people that maybe they don’t list all day, or maybe they’re not in the industry, when you talk about saving clicks for, of inventory, that you have thousands and thousands of products, you’re talking about saving time, you’re talking about saving energy. You’re talking about saving your hand from clicking. I mean, you’re talking about all these things, their impacts on people’s actual lives. It’s not, um, you know, oh, I’m just gonna, you know, update this or, or make this feature.
Patrick:
And then it’s just gonna get overlooked or anything like, no, that could not be further from the truth. This is a software and something that is impacting every user’s life. The ecommerce, reselling world offers flexibility. We, I mean that, that is true. We know that, um, that they offer flexibility. So when you’re talking about List Perfectly with that user you’re talking about that is, they’re getting more sales, they are accelerating their business. And in that scenario, what does that mean? If they’re accelerating, they’re saving time, they’re spending more time with the person that maybe they’re having to look after, or maybe it’s just buying them more time to be able to do something else that they want to do, whatever it might be. Uh, you know, we have, I work with plenty of customers and users that, hey, they just love reselling.
Patrick:
So it just means that they get to resell more or they get to shop more or whatever it might be. And then you go on the other end and you’ve got somebody that’s having, they have 10 employees and they’re looking to expand their business. They want to, they want to grow and they want to do more. Um, and so it allows them to expand, to have processes in place that allows them to add more employees, more team members, more product, the trickle-down effect from using List Perfectly is really, really pretty amazing and what it does. There’s lots of opportunity in eCommerce to make an impact. And I mean, it’s definitely what, um, and, and every little, little update and feature and things like that, um, with that in mind it makes for a good environment and good features too, to be released.
Doug:
So we’ve hinted at this, but let’s dig a little deeper. Let’s talk about innovation. How is List Perfectly an innovator in tech?
Patrick:
List Perfectly is innovating in the sense that we’re pushing things to the limit and innovating and coming up with features to apply to List Perfectly and, and for our users. So the atmosphere and the philosophy is just by working and listening with customers, Amanda and Clara, both resellers, they’ve been there, kind of done that kind of thing. So that’s one unique thing. You have a company and a culture from the top that understands the user. So when you have those opportunities in that kind of unique environment, it allows you to innovate differently. You may, you may think, you know, or you may think, or you may see, and you may, in tech, you may wanna release features and things like that that are gaining traction. But when you know that that’s gonna do nothing for the user, is it worth it? There are lots of, there’s lots of, you know, tech is trending.
Patrick:
Okay. So there’s, there’s trending things that come out and trending features that sure. You could apply it into your different tech world and into your, into your use case. And, and it may seem, out of the box, it may seem like, oh, this is gonna be cool. This is gonna be great. But when you, when you really understand it, and from the top, the idea is that is the customer going to use, this is the customer gonna benefit it from it. And then if you really have to question it, then it may not be it, but what innovation comes in is what could we do that could be useful for our customer? So then that’s where we are able to innovate and we’re able to, to pivot and to go in different directions and kind of push it to the limit and really, you know, figure out what is best for our, for our customers and everything.
Clara:
I love your answer. I couldn’t agree more, you know, do they want it, do they need it? You know, very simple. That’s my, my, my philosophy when it comes to innovation. Thank you. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you so much for your time.
Patrick:
Of course. Thank you.
Doug:
Yep. Thanks, Patrick. We really appreciate it. And, uh, you know, we will definitely have you back on, it was a great chat.
Patrick:
Yeah, absolutely.
Doug:
Thank you for joining us on The Seller Community Podcast from List Perfectly. You can find us at thesellercommunitypodcast.com. You can leave a message or ask a question at anchor.fm/sellercommunitypodcast. You can email us at podcast@listperfectly.com. Post a question in the List Perfectly Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/listperfectly. You can listen to The Seller Community Podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts and be sure and subscribe, tell your friends, and if you’re on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a review on Instagram and TikTok. You can find @snoop.dougie and of course, follow @listperfectly. And you can always use our promo code podcast. That’s P O D C A S T for 30% off your first month of List Perfectly or 30% off your first month of upgrading your plan. Thanks for listening. And we will see you next time.